, but nothing seemed to spark real excitement in the group. Then we began studying Wayne Grudem's Bible Doctrine
. By this time, our church moved into two locations and we met a few teenagers from the Spring Hill area. Then our youth group more than doubled.I mean, twelve teens might not seem like a lot to the seasoned youth group leader, but for us, it was a little dizzying.
I don't know if I can credit this all to the church now having a location in Spring Hill or if it's because we're digging into questions regarding deep truth, but the conversations during meetings have changed dramatically. We're discussing Common Grace, Sin, Prayer, the Trinity, the Gospel, and the like. And I'm learning something from them about how I lead a discussion. First of all, nothing makes you feel so much like a dope when you ask a question and hear silence from a room full of teens. But instead of accusing them of disinterest, I try to figure out ways to ask questions about the topic so they want to answer.
It's one big reason why I've changed how I do things on this weblog. Not that you're a bunch of teenagers.
The kids also teach me how to ask good questions by, well, asking me good questions. During our discussion on Sin, one of the girls asked, "But where did sin come from?"
How beautifully simple. So I said, "From rules." Only after I said it did I think about it. Paul seems to say as much on his explanation of sin in Romans. Sin didn't exist on earth until God told Adam and Eve "Don't eat that fruit." That's not to say I think God gave men sin by giving them a rule. I mean to say that God created men with a will that would sin. The Fall may have easily happened if God said, "make sure to eat that fruit every day" because the serpent might have countered with, "Aren't you a little full?" and we'd be in the same mess.
I may be wrong. I may be only partially right. But where do you think sin came from? Do you even think sin is real (I'm looking at you, relativist reader)?
6 comments:
repost from facebook: This same question has occurred to me recently when grumbling over issues raised during research for my dissertation on the identity of Leviathan. I like your illustration of how we could just as easily have sinned by "being too full," but because this too would have come through the serpent's influence, I would have to say that sin originated with the snake/devil/primordial sea dragon.
nice, so was it the rule or the tree? What if the garden was full of obedience trees and one disobedient one? What if one tree was named the tree of knowledge of nakedness?
What i do know is now snakes get no legs, jokes on them if you ask me.
On a side note I'm glad they didn't play catch with the fruit first. To bad it wasn't "Tho shall not play catch with the fruit of that tree, or you shall surely die." Then Satan tosses one to eve and says "c-mon, i bet you cant hit me with it!"
Mikey,
I see what you're saying. But then you have the problem of Satan creating something when he's only a perverter. Spell check tells me that's not a word, but I think you get me. So maybe the question I would ask you is this, "Is sin a thing unto itself or mere perversion?"
Archie, I can't tell if your jokes come from you being tired what with the new baby and all, or if you're just getting a head start on dad-jokes.
Either way, they're appreciated.
I think we can safely assume that the power to create ex nihilo belongs solely to God, so in that respect sin would be a perversion of some aspect of the created order. Indeed, it didn't seem to be any problem when Eve "saw that the fruit was good" when up until that point in the text the only one who had made any judgments on what was good was God, but then again we were created in His image. The problem arose when Satan twisted the command and deceived the woman, but again Adam should probably have been more on top of things... which leads us to where you mentioned in your post that "God created men with a will that would sin." Which is really interesting, considering the fact that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
I just got back from my crossfit workout, so I might be incoherent/rambling (my brain doesn't start functioning until I've had a hearty meal afterwards and some coffee) but yeah, mind=boggled. :D
What do you mean when you ask if sin is real? Do you mean that we all miss the mark? Screw up? Fail to live up to the standard God sets? Or do you mean there's some evil sin force out there jumping people and causing them to do evil? (You know, separate from demons and devils.) I believe in the former, we all fail to live up to the standard God sets, but to hear many Christians speak of it, sin is some cosmic force on par with God. Does your church spend more time talking about sin, what sin is and what is sin, how to avoid sin, the consequences of sin, than it spends talking about God, His grace, and His forgiveness?
I think modern Christianity has become so fixated on avoiding sin that we have a tendency to cut ourselves off from the world we're supposed to be helping God save. We've moved so far backwards, away from Christ's teachings, that we might as well start sacrificing goats again to appease our angry God. Jesus said that the greatest commandments were to love God and love each other, if we do that we've hit the mark, we've fulfilled the law and the prophets. Why then are we not focused on loving God and loving others rather than playing holy by avoiding the world.
Is it better to abstain from movies because their imagery may tempt us or to go to one with someone who really needs a friend? Is it better to refrain from drinking to avoid the danger of drunkenness or have a drink and commiserate with someone the world thinks is a total loser? If our personal holiness interferes with our ability to love our neighbor, that too is missing the mark.
Mikey,
I see what you're saying. Maybe it's like this. God is perfect. He creates us as something good, but less than Himself because nothing else can compare to Him. We created beings are given a will and so make real choices. Now the question is, given the choice, could we created beings ever live up to the standards of our Creator without His help?
So let's say God has foreknowledge we were going to sin. If He knew this and wanted to help us, knowing the cost and everything, does that mean He planned on the cross before He even made man, in that sense making the sacrifice at the moment He even created the world?
I think I want to read your dissertation when you're done.
Matt,
yep. Focusing on sin to much makes us think we need to pay for our sins anyway. Conversely, an imbalanced focus on grace has made a few spiritual sociopaths. I think in either sense, the problem comes from looking at ourselves more than what Jesus did. Pride's a bitch both ways.
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